rfc9712v1.txt   rfc9712.txt 
Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) J. Daley, Ed. Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) J. Daley, Ed.
Request for Comments: 9712 S. Turner Request for Comments: 9712 S. Turner
Updates: 8718, 8719 IETF Administration LLC BCP: 226 IETF Administration LLC
Category: Best Current Practice December 2024 Updates: 8718, 8719 January 2025
Category: Best Current Practice
ISSN: 2070-1721 ISSN: 2070-1721
IETF Meeting Venue Requirements Review IETF Meeting Venue Requirements Review
Abstract Abstract
Following a review of the IETF meeting venue requirements, this Following a review of the IETF meeting venue requirements, this
document proposes updates to "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection document updates RFC 8718 ("IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection
Process" (RFC 8718), clarifies how the IETF Administration Support Process"), clarifies how the IETF Administration Support Activity
Activity (IASA) should interpret some elements of RFC 8718, and (IASA) should interpret some elements of RFC 8718, and specifies a
proposes a replacement exploratory meeting process, thereby updating replacement exploratory meeting process, thereby updating RFC 8719
"High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF" (RFC 8719). ("High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF").
Status of This Memo Status of This Memo
This memo documents an Internet Best Current Practice. This memo documents an Internet Best Current Practice.
This document is a product of the Internet Engineering Task Force This document is a product of the Internet Engineering Task Force
(IETF). It represents the consensus of the IETF community. It has (IETF). It represents the consensus of the IETF community. It has
received public review and has been approved for publication by the received public review and has been approved for publication by the
Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG). Further information on Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG). Further information on
BCPs is available in Section 2 of RFC 7841. BCPs is available in Section 2 of RFC 7841.
Information about the current status of this document, any errata, Information about the current status of this document, any errata,
and how to provide feedback on it may be obtained at and how to provide feedback on it may be obtained at
https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9712. https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9712.
Copyright Notice Copyright Notice
Copyright (c) 2024 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the Copyright (c) 2025 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the
document authors. All rights reserved. document authors. All rights reserved.
This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal
Provisions Relating to IETF Documents Provisions Relating to IETF Documents
(https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of (https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of
publication of this document. Please review these documents publication of this document. Please review these documents
carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect
to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must
include Revised BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the include Revised BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the
Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described
skipping to change at line 99 skipping to change at line 100
current model for IETF meetings. current model for IETF meetings.
The IASA has reviewed the venue selection in light of these The IASA has reviewed the venue selection in light of these
developments, primarily informed by the staff who work on venue developments, primarily informed by the staff who work on venue
selection, and has identified a number of issues to be addressed by a selection, and has identified a number of issues to be addressed by a
combination of updates to those RFCs and clarifications of combination of updates to those RFCs and clarifications of
interpretation. interpretation.
2. Summary of Changes to RFCs 8718 and 8719 2. Summary of Changes to RFCs 8718 and 8719
1. Updates the Meeting (Rotation) Policy specified in [RFC8719] with This document makes the following changes to [RFC8718] and [RFC8719]:
1. Updates the meeting (rotation) policy specified in [RFC8719] with
a new process for the selection of exploratory meetings. a new process for the selection of exploratory meetings.
2. Clarifies the interpretation of "close proximity" as used in 2. Clarifies the interpretation of "close proximity" as used in
[RFC8718]. [RFC8718].
3. Updates the room block requirement specified in [RFC8718] from 3. Updates the room block requirement specified in [RFC8718] from
"one-third or more of projected meeting attendees" to a more "one-third or more of projected meeting attendees" to a more
flexible "sufficient rooms to meet the expected demand". flexible "sufficient rooms to meet the expected demand".
4. Clarifies that the IASA should interpret any reference to 4. Clarifies that the IASA should interpret any reference to
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that the IASA can choose to provide at its own discretion. that the IASA can choose to provide at its own discretion.
5. Updates the ad hoc space specified in various parts of [RFC8718] 5. Updates the ad hoc space specified in various parts of [RFC8718]
to better match the community requirements, as expressed in post- to better match the community requirements, as expressed in post-
meeting surveys. meeting surveys.
3. The Meeting (Rotation) Policy and Exploratory Meetings 3. The Meeting (Rotation) Policy and Exploratory Meetings
3.1. Current Policy 3.1. Current Policy
The current meeting rotation policy is set as the "1-1-1-*" policy in The current meeting (rotation) policy is set as the "1-1-1-*" policy
[RFC8719]: in [RFC8719]:
| [...] the meeting policy (let's call this the "1-1-1" policy) is | [...] the meeting policy (let's call this the "1-1-1" policy) is
| that meetings should rotate between North America, Europe, and | that meetings should rotate between North America, Europe, and
| Asia. | Asia.
and and
| [...] the 1-1-1-* meeting policy is a slightly modified version of | [...] the 1-1-1-* meeting policy is a slightly modified version of
| the aforementioned 1-1-1 meeting policy that allows for additional | the aforementioned 1-1-1 meeting policy that allows for additional
| flexibility in the form of an exploratory meeting (denoted with an | flexibility in the form of an exploratory meeting (denoted with an
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| * We have something of a preference for an IETF meeting to be | * We have something of a preference for an IETF meeting to be
| under "One Roof"; that is, qualified meeting space and guest | under "One Roof"; that is, qualified meeting space and guest
| rooms are available in the same facility. | rooms are available in the same facility.
4.1.2. Discussion 4.1.2. Discussion
What happens in practice is that the IASA books a venue that conforms What happens in practice is that the IASA books a venue that conforms
to one of two separate configurations: to one of two separate configurations:
1. A "one-roof" venue of a hotel with the meeting space in the hotel 1. A "One-Roof" venue of a hotel with the meeting space in the hotel
or directly attached. or directly attached.
The advantages of this configuration are: The advantages of this configuration are:
* With a large enough room block, the meeting space is generally * With a large enough room block, the meeting space is generally
free. free.
* For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay in * For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay in
the IETF hotel, there is a strong sense of community. the IETF hotel, there is a strong sense of community.
* It is usually easier and more flexible to work with a single * It is usually easier and more flexible to work with a single
point of contact instead of several (e.g., convention centers point of contact instead of several (e.g., convention centers
have separate contacts for Audio/Visual services, Food/ have separate contacts for Audio/Visual services, Food/
Beverage services, and meeting space). Beverage services, and meeting space).
* It can be much cheaper for the IASA than working with a * It can be much cheaper for the IASA than working with a
separate convention center. separate convention center.
* Group discussions can move more naturally from the facility to * Group discussions can move more naturally from the Facility to
the hotel. the hotel.
* It is easier to negotiate network changes to the hotel as part * It is easier to negotiate network changes to the hotel as part
of an overall network package. of an overall network package.
* Someone can walk from their room to the meeting space in a few * Someone can walk from their room to the meeting space in a few
minutes, staying indoors the whole time. minutes, staying indoors the whole time.
The disadvantages are: The disadvantages are:
* There are a limited number of hotels (and therefore cities) * There are a limited number of hotels (and therefore cities)
with large enough meeting space and sufficient rooms to with large enough meeting space and sufficient rooms.
accommodate us.
* The room rates at conference hotels are often on the high * The room rates at conference hotels are often on the high
side, which can be more expensive for IETF participants. side, which can be more expensive for IETF participants.
2. A meeting space not co-located with a hotel (normally a 2. A meeting space not co-located with a hotel (normally a
convention center) but where there are hotels within a short convention center) but where there are hotels within a short
walk. walk.
The advantages of this configuration are: The advantages of this configuration are:
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and are less flexible. and are less flexible.
* The IASA has to pay for the meeting space. * The IASA has to pay for the meeting space.
* For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay in * For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay in
the IETF hotel, the sense of community is diminished. the IETF hotel, the sense of community is diminished.
* The choice of a main hotel and negotiation of the network for * The choice of a main hotel and negotiation of the network for
that hotel are more complicated. that hotel are more complicated.
While a "one-roof" venue is preferred, there are a limited number of To meet in cities that do not have suitable "One-Roof" venues, the
hotels (and therefore cities) with large enough meeting space and IASA needs to work with convention centers. If this approach is not
sufficient rooms to accommodate us. To meet in cities that do not taken, then many cities and potentially some countries will be
have suitable "one-roof" venues, the IASA needs to work with practically excluded as meeting venues.
convention centers. If this approach is not taken, then many cities
and potentially some countries will be practically excluded as
meeting venues.
It should also be noted that a "one-roof" venue shifts the costs of It should also be noted that a "One-Roof" venue shifts the costs of
the meeting onto participants whereas a convention center shifts the the meeting onto participants whereas a convention center shifts the
costs onto the IASA. costs onto the IASA.
Despite "one roof" being expressed as a preference in [RFC8718], Despite "One Roof" being expressed as a preference in [RFC8718],
there are some in the community who consider it as the only way to there are some in the community who consider it as the only way to
meet the requirement for "close proximity". meet the requirement for "close proximity".
4.1.3. Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation 4.1.3. Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation
To address this concern, the IASA should interpret the "close To address this concern, the IASA should interpret the "close
proximity" requirement of [RFC8718] as follows: proximity" requirement of [RFC8718] as follows:
Where the meeting space is a convention center or another Where the meeting space is a convention center or another
facility without a directly attached hotel, the "close facility without a directly attached hotel, the "close
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| of the meeting. | of the meeting.
The concept is further expanded in Section 3.2.4 of [RFC8718]: The concept is further expanded in Section 3.2.4 of [RFC8718]:
| Overflow Hotels can be placed under contract, within convenient | Overflow Hotels can be placed under contract, within convenient
| travel time to and from the Facility and at a variety of guest | travel time to and from the Facility and at a variety of guest
| room rates | room rates
4.3.2. Discussion 4.3.2. Discussion
The IASA has historically contracted with overflow hotels including The IASA has historically contracted with Overflow Hotels including
those at other price points from the IETF Hotels. They were very those at other price points from the IETF Hotels. They were very
underutilized by attendees, reflecting the general underutilization underutilized by attendees, reflecting the general underutilization
of IETF contracted room blocks and exposing the IASA to financial of IETF contracted room blocks and exposing the IASA to financial
risk with little benefit to participants. As a result, the use of risk with little benefit to participants. As a result, the use of
overflow hotels has reduced, and they are rarely contracted. Overflow Hotels has reduced, and they are rarely contracted.
However, due to the way they are incorporated into [RFC8718], there However, due to the way they are incorporated into [RFC8718], there
are still many who believe these are, or should be, a normal feature are still many who believe these are, or should be, a normal feature
of IETF meetings. of IETF meetings.
4.3.3. Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation 4.3.3. Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation
To address this issue, the IASA should interpret any reference to To address this issue, the IASA should interpret any reference to
Overflow Hotels as an entirely optional feature that the IASA can Overflow Hotels as an entirely optional feature that the IASA can
choose to provide at its own discretion. choose to provide at its own discretion.
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| minutes). | minutes).
| |
| * At least one IETF Hotel or the Facility has a space for use as | * At least one IETF Hotel or the Facility has a space for use as
| a lounge, conducive to planned and ad hoc meetings and | a lounge, conducive to planned and ad hoc meetings and
| chatting, as well as a space for working online. There are | chatting, as well as a space for working online. There are
| tables with seating, convenient for small meetings with | tables with seating, convenient for small meetings with
| laptops. These can be at an open bar or casual restaurant. | laptops. These can be at an open bar or casual restaurant.
| Preferably the lounge area is centrally located, permitting | Preferably the lounge area is centrally located, permitting
| easy access to participants. | easy access to participants.
While not a formal requirement, a Terminal Room (described as a While not a formal requirement, a terminal room (described as a
dedicated room with extended opening hours beyond the normal hours of dedicated room with extended opening hours beyond the normal hours of
IETF meetings), Ethernet connectivity, a printer, and a staffed help IETF meetings), Ethernet connectivity, a printer, and a staffed help
desk have been long-standing features of IETF meetings. desk have been long-standing features of IETF meetings.
4.4.2. Discussion 4.4.2. Discussion
Both the Lounge and the Terminal Room are used regularly but lightly, Both the lounge and the terminal room are used regularly but lightly,
i.e., far below capacity. The reason for this is explained in the i.e., far below capacity. The reason for this is explained in the
feedback to post-meeting surveys: Most participants want an feedback to post-meeting surveys: Most participants want an
immediately accessible ad hoc meeting space, which is best provided immediately accessible ad hoc meeting space, which is best provided
by plenty of hallway seating. The IASA has responded to this by plenty of hallway seating. The IASA has responded to this
feedback by adopting a new practice of hiring in-hallway seating feedback by adopting a new practice of bringing in additional in-
whenever that provided by the venue is insufficient. hallway seating whenever that provided by the venue is insufficient.
Dedicated rooms, such as the Lounge or Terminal Room, or external Dedicated rooms, such as the lounge or terminal room, or external
facilities "within walking distance (5-10 minutes)" are unsuitable facilities "within walking distance (5-10 minutes)" are unsuitable
for the majority of participant needs, though there remains a need for the majority of participant needs, though there remains a need
for quiet places to work between sessions. for quiet places to work between sessions.
4.4.3. Resolution: Update to RFC 8718 4.4.3. Resolution: Update to RFC 8718
To address this issue, [RFC8718] is updated as follows: To address this issue, [RFC8718] is updated as follows:
1. Section 3.2.2 of [RFC8718] is updated so that the entry on ad hoc 1. Section 3.2.2 of [RFC8718] is updated so that the entry on ad hoc
meeting space (first bullet) now reads: meeting space (first bullet) now reads:
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[RFC8718] Lear, E., Ed., "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection [RFC8718] Lear, E., Ed., "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection
Process", BCP 226, RFC 8718, DOI 10.17487/RFC8718, Process", BCP 226, RFC 8718, DOI 10.17487/RFC8718,
February 2020, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8718>. February 2020, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8718>.
[RFC8719] Krishnan, S., "High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy [RFC8719] Krishnan, S., "High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy
of the IETF", BCP 226, RFC 8719, DOI 10.17487/RFC8719, of the IETF", BCP 226, RFC 8719, DOI 10.17487/RFC8719,
February 2020, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8719>. February 2020, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8719>.
Contributors Contributors
Thanks to all of the contributors: Laura Nugent, Stephanie McCammon, Thanks to the following people for their contributions to this
Alexa Morris, Greg Wood, Lars Eggert, and Jason Livingood. document: Laura Nugent, Stephanie McCammon, Alexa Morris, Greg Wood,
Lars Eggert, and Jason Livingood.
Authors' Addresses Authors' Addresses
Jay Daley (editor) Jay Daley (editor)
IETF Administration LLC IETF Administration LLC
1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200 1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200
Wilimington, DE 19801 Wilmington, DE 19801
United States of America United States of America
Email: jay@staff.ietf.org Email: jay@staff.ietf.org
Sean Turner Sean Turner
IETF Administration LLC IETF Administration LLC
1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200 1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200
Wilimington, DE 19801 Wilmington, DE 19801
United States of America United States of America
Email: sean@sn3rd.com Email: sean@sn3rd.com
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